By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
Rapid Robert Floor Issue
I am currently starting a rapid robert from Roger Fletcher's great book. I want to know: if the floor boards were removed to reduce weight for some trips, would there be any chance of doing damage to the boat from walking or placing gear directly on the bottom? It will be a 1/2" plywood and glassed bottom. I realize the frames will make moving around awkward but having to carry the boat across some low places is no picnic. Any insight into this will be of great help.
thanks,
Larry
Views: 372
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by M Quinlan on -
Hi , just curious are you building the RR 16 footer ? I was planning on making some of my floor removable. Just a thought I am playing with . Matt
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Permalink Reply by larry Hambley on -
No, a 14'. We recently completed a 16' double ender and the floor seems to add a lot of weight. The boat I am building now will be used a lot on "skinny water" so getting rid of weight is a goal. I'm just concerned about standing directly on the bottom. Hope some one can help.
Thanks
Larry
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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on -
Removable floorboards are, or should be, standard equipment on framed boats. So are easily removed seats and decks. Makes for ease of maintenence. I have dismantled my boat a few times when portaging an obstacle has been necessary. The Rapid Robert shines in skinny water. Draws much less than traditional McKenzies that have much more rocker. I've run mine without floorboards a few times. Don't see that it would be a problem except that your gear will be in standing water between the frames. The compromise could be very short floorboards that span a few frames in strategic places.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Knight on -
I don't think the floorboards in my boat really weigh much at all. Port Orford Cedar is light stuff and I couldn't imagine my boat draws any less water with them in or out of the boat. my .02
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Permalink Reply by larry Hambley on
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Much thanks for the responses! Lot of good info. Any others welcomed. As for Port Oxford Cedar, you western guys are really lucky to have access to wood and plywood we seldom see here. Again, thanks.
Larry
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Permalink Reply by Jason Knight on
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yeah I should have clarified on the cedar... my kit came from Tatman and they use the Port Orford Cedar in their boats for frames and floor slats. (I live in MI btw)
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Permalink Reply by Dave Z on -
I've used cypress and doug fir for floors. I don't finish them either. They get beatup. I plane to 1/2" and put them where I need em. They really don't weigh much in the grand scheme of things. The accumulated water in the floor of your boat is where the weight is in a portage. A dry boat is way lighter than a waterlogged one.
Seats on the other hand would be where your removable weight is. Bottom treatment will also be another big weight adder. My first two boats had glass over glass and graphite and about a gallon and a half of epoxy. That boat was heavy as hell. My latest build has a 1/2" fir bottom with a 1/4" fir bottom over that. its ALOT lighter. Oiled and beeswaxed and its holding out wonderfully.
I you are looking for lighter weight- Meranti and doug fir plywood are about the same in weight. Sappele is lighter but also more fragile. I personnaly would not build a sappele boat.
If I really needed the lightest boat possible, I'd probably build with either meranti or fir up the sides, just painted. Oil the inside, and do a 5/8" fir bottom, 3" stock for the bottom frames, frame material planed to 5/8" and 3/8" plywood floors that are removable. No bottom treatment. Don't need no stinkin' bottom treatment! Old school worked in the old days. A partial skid shoe would also suffice.
The key to lighter weight is slimming down all the parts, not just floors.
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Permalink Reply by M Quinlan on
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Dave ,
This is interesting !
My latest build has a 1/2" fir bottom with a 1/4" fir bottom over that. its ALOT lighter. Oiled and beeswaxed and its holding out wonderfully.
So did you not use any glass on the entire boat? Doesn't the wood eventually become soaked or waterlogged ? How did you seal the seams and attach the 1/4 inch to the 1/2 inch ? Afteruse is there a way you dry it out? Are you currently oiling the sides of the boat? Thanks , Matt
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Permalink Reply by larry Hambley on
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Thanks Dave for your insightful advice. It will take some time for me to consider it all, but, I love the idea of the plywood floors. At about 1 Lb/square foot 3/8" ply is a practical solution and is easily replaced. I envy your boat building skills if you can build with no glass. I believe if I did not at least tape the seams, it would sink. Are there any pix of your boat on WBP?
Thanks, Larry
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Permalink Reply by Dave Z on
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Larry, Matt,
You can seem my previous builds on my blog-
www.ththchronicles.blogspot.com You will have to go in the archives from last spring. But there are alot of photos. There is also a link to my flickr page.
As for no glass- yeah, as a matter of fact, my meranti boat has zero glass fabric on it. Sure, I used epoxy to glue up scarfs and as a sealant (under the exterior varnish) , but no cloth inside or out on the floors. everything but seat tops in the interior are oiled.
As for getting waterlogged, who knows. Do I worry about it? heck no. I always store the boat dry. It lives in my garage or barn when not in use. I drain it out on the ride home, and will sponge out the excess usually. most times it is dry enough. My boat are a mess. I really don't take care of them other than trying to avoid hits on the river and it is always in the garage. I never clean em!
I have oiled my interior and exterior bottoms until they would take no more oil. I oiled my interior in the middle of the day when it was full sun, and 90 degrees out. The wood soaked up the oil like crazy. It's probably super flammable hahaha!
As for the outside skid shoe, yeah, it works. I primarily row the Yough river in Southwest PA. It is notoriously rocky, skinny at times and can be technical on sections. There are a few class II-IIIs. The reason I have abandoned glassed bottoms is because of the nastiness that happens when you impact a rock. The outside bottom absorbs nothing. The energy is transferred to the interior plies. Impact fractures under the front seat and floor. Like crazy. My meranti boat with the skid shoe has NONE and has taken some serious abuse. Even th esound of a hit is different. In a glassed bottom boat a hit runs chills down your spine like the crack of a 30.06. With a skid shoe it is much more of a dull "thud." That tells you something about the energy transfer.
Do I worry about water getting between the skid shoe/chine area? never. I sealed the endgrain pretty good with epoxy on the 1/2 inch. I bedded the chine battens with SIka 291. The skid shoe got nothing but oil on inside and out. (The 1/2 inch got oil too on both sides).
As for leaky boats. A leak is not such a bad thing. sure it is a water entry point, but it also is an escape route. that is very important. No, my boats don't leak. If you have ever seen a planked boat with cotton chinking, its unreal. there are GAPS between planks! The wood swells as does the cotton, and it becomes watertight. In fact, some of the original planked boats probably leaked like crazy. They probably filled them with water in the spring in order to swell the wood.
My theory on it all is that water will inevitably get into the wood. It absolutely will, even if you glassed your bottom. It will always find a way. Think of the boat as a bucket. If youv'e ever rowed in a rain storm, you will have a very full bucket. Water will get between the chine, miniscule gaps you can;t see, etc... With a breathable skid shoe- water in can get out. Less chance of rot.
The trend in drift boats a while ago was to encapsulate it all in epoxy and then varnish it. Some of those boats can be in the worst condition if not cared for and stored dry. The number one culprit is water getting under the finish and not being able to get out = dry rot.
There are many original 1950s DBs out there with no bottom treatment. When it gets bad enough, re-bottom it. relatively easy fix at that point.
I'm not trying to sell the idea of a skid shoe as it may not be for everyone. I'm sharing what works for me and what I know in building three boats, three different ways.
Sorry for the ramble.
Dave
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Permalink Reply by larry Hambley on
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Dave,
Your boats are beautiful, your experience and patience are evident. I appreciate your discussion on oil vs. glass. How do you attach the "skid shoe" and do you replace it periodically?
Thanks, Larry
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